Author Topic: Dread Loot Distribution  (Read 11538 times)

LostDreams

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Dread Loot Distribution
« on: August 27, 2013, 12:16:21 AM »
We need to iron out a new distribution system for Dread.

As it stands, it seems that those who kill Hard Mode bosses gets dibs on the Hard Mode drops as well as the normal loot piece. I think that is too much, even considering the extra effort taken to kill the Hard Mode boss.

My suggestion is that those who kill Hard Mode bosses gets an extra consumable dropped in the instance. Otherwise, normal loot rules follow. I was thinking that people who killed the boss would get a Hard Mode piece, but that is most likely too abusable (just swoop down when the region is done and kill the boss. 1 turn investments pays rather well).

This actually falls more in line with Hobopolis loot distribution methods, as boss killers are not rewarded any more than other people in the run. Simply those that spend the most time in the instance will be rewarded.

Please let me know your thoughts about this. I'd like to implement this as soon as possible to make it more fair for all clannies to get a piece of loot!

Thanks!
LostDreams

bsander

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Re: Dread Loot Distribution
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2013, 02:03:22 AM »
I share your concern, but I don't like your solution. How about requiring a minimum # (250?) of turns spent in order to kill a boss?

Then, if you are eligible to do that and kill a boss in Hard mode, I think you should get first pick. No additional loot, just first pick. After that everything gets distributed by turncount.

Hard mode bosses drop two pieces of loot instead of one, plus an additional consumable and in the castle they also drop a skull capacitor. That means more drops to distribute to all participants. Also in Hobopolis bosses drop stuff to whoever beats them, in Dreadsylvania they don't. Because of both those things I think HM kills should very much be encouraged. While costs are going down, killing HM drunkula (ghost shawl, massive overdrinking) or HOA (hot/spooky clusterbombs are still a necessity for many people) for instance still is pretty expensive. I would not go through that for just a consumable.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 03:31:09 AM by bsander »

Methusalah

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Re: Dread Loot Distribution
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2013, 06:54:44 AM »
Maybe it's necessary to implement a points system?  Regular monster kills are worth 1 point, normal boss kills are worth 10, hard mode are worth 50?  I haven't killed a hard mode boss yet, but based on what I've read so far, I don't think it would be worth a consumable item. 

gumpy13

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Re: Dread Loot Distribution
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2013, 10:30:29 AM »
There's a big problem with this policy.  HM kills require not only a special item, but in some cases a particular skill set.  Dungy has been selling the HM loot he doesn't have already to offset the cost of acquiring it and I'm planning on doing the same.  The items in question can be quite expensive, and we need to fund HM bosses somehow.

theletterm

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Re: Dread Loot Distribution
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2013, 10:56:16 AM »
One other thing to consider re: a points system.  As it currently stands, it is quite possible to spend a significant number of turns in the Dread and still fall short of getting any drops.  Given that it takes about 3000 turns to complete and that we burn through a single instance in a day, I suspect that those of us that can't crack the top 7 may never get loot without banking turns and spending a lot of meat on adv. Thus, rewards are skewed towards clannies like myself that can get 350+ turns a day without too much effort. A points system could help ensure that those that contribute to finishing dread daily get a shot at stuff periodically even if they do not have a lot of gear/skills permed.

Also, it would help encourage folks to open up certain areas (here, I'm mostly thinking of the Tree for Freddies, and grabbing the music box parts for the clan, but you could also include pulling gallows levers, generating blood kiwis or coordinating skill pickups in the Tower).

On the other hand, if hardmode loot starts going down in price to the point where we start distributing instead of selling, that plus the music box rule change may ensure that there is enough loot for anyone that spends 250+ turns.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 09:56:16 AM by theletterm »

LostDreams

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Re: Dread Loot Distribution
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2013, 12:25:19 PM »
Thanks for the posts guys! The policy I have written up there seems a  bit draconian, but I like to start out at an extreme and work it down.

A point system sounds nice in practice, and the clan has had one before in regards with Hamster runs in Hobopolis. However, to apply it to Dread, a dungeon that gets cleared -every- day, sometimes two runs in a day, this is an astounding amount of work. I don't see this being a feasible system. Also clannies with more adventure generation will end up with more points anyway, so I don't think it's such a great system (it worked with hamster runs because everyone got the same number of points for the same amount of effort it took).

250+ adventure requirement to kill a boss sounds nice, but the issue I have with it is that it can stall dungeon progression.

One idea I have is that those who kill the hard mode boss (no requirement other than don't be a sniper. Sniper no sniping.) get the hard mode piece. They can sell it or keep it, it doesn't matter. However, they aren't entitled to the normal boss piece. They can qualify for it based on # of turns spent like everyone else. So if they spent 400 adventures and killed a HM boss, they would get the HM piece and a piece of loot from the instance with such a high turn count.

gumpy13

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Re: Dread Loot Distribution
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2013, 12:35:02 PM »
Thanks for the posts guys! The policy I have written up there seems a  bit draconian, but I like to start out at an extreme and work it down.

A point system sounds nice in practice, and the clan has had one before in regards with Hamster runs in Hobopolis. However, to apply it to Dread, a dungeon that gets cleared -every- day, sometimes two runs in a day, this is an astounding amount of work. I don't see this being a feasible system. Also clannies with more adventure generation will end up with more points anyway, so I don't think it's such a great system (it worked with hamster runs because everyone got the same number of points for the same amount of effort it took).

250+ adventure requirement to kill a boss sounds nice, but the issue I have with it is that it can stall dungeon progression.

One idea I have is that those who kill the hard mode boss (no requirement other than don't be a sniper. Sniper no sniping.) get the hard mode piece. They can sell it or keep it, it doesn't matter. However, they aren't entitled to the normal boss piece. They can qualify for it based on # of turns spent like everyone else. So if they spent 400 adventures and killed a HM boss, they would get the HM piece and a piece of loot from the instance with such a high turn count.

That's what we've been doing, at least that's what I thought we've been doing.

LostDreams

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Re: Dread Loot Distribution
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2013, 12:48:31 PM »
I suppose that's true Gumpy. I guess the issue is that there aren't very many drops in general (3 normal pieces per run).

Well I'm at a loss for suggestions. I don't know how to ensure that clannies who can't afford to generate as many adventures can get a piece. I could tell them to bank turns and do Dread every two days, but I think this will also stall dungeon progression as people wait to burn turns.

This sucks.

nohbody

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Re: Dread Loot Distribution
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2013, 07:20:24 PM »
What about a sponership idea?  A person can sponser a Hard Boss drop by providing any item tha the boss consumes and contributing 150k to the clan for the run. This entitles them to one item from that boss the rest of the loot is distributed based on turn count.  So someone willing to pay for the Hard boss and also spend a lot of turns in the dungeon could get two pieces of loot and whoever killed the Hard boss wouldn't have to spend a bunch of thier own money on the item needed to kill it.

dungy

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Re: Dread Loot Distribution
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2013, 07:54:24 PM »
I really should chime in here, since I'm doing 90% of the distribution.

Keep in mind, I'm actually a pretty busy medical resident, who works on average 70 hours per week and also has a pregnant wife and various other very real world responsibilities.  If someone designs a complicated points system that takes me longer than the 20 minutes distribution already takes me, you'll have to find someone else to do it.  It takes time to look up each player's want/have list on the forums, look at the list, try to remember if they've updated their list recently, and then distribute the loot people want.

Here is how I am currently doing distribution...
If you beat a boss on hard mode, you get the hard mode drop if you want it.  Hard mode bosses can cost up to 2 million meat to fight in the case of Drunkula.  This is a significant investment.  What I've been doing, is selling these drops to clannies (If this is a duplicate) at the cost of acquiring the item.  I make no profit from this.  I do not sell items in /trade.  If I did, I'd be a very rich man right now.

I have been boss sniping, but I do that because previously people were only beating bosses in easy mode.  That is wasteful.  Whenever a boss is beaten in easy mode, that is 1 good piece of loot and one consumeable that is not dropped.  Also, some bosses like ghost mayor, great wolf, and the unkillable skeleton are extremely difficult for low skill players to beat.  I don't know how you would even kill the skeleton without loathing legion copter and vent rage gland.  Mayor Ghost would be just impossible for a low skilled player.

Following that, I have been distributing based upon turn count for lack of an easier way to do it.  I do not think it is unreasonable for lower level players to obtain the on average less than 400 turns required to get a piece of loot.  9 crimbojitos, pumpkin beer, ode, 4 spleen items, 5 lasagnas, field gar, milk of magnesium.  That costs less than 200k, and generates like 250+ turns/day with minimal rollover gear.  If you bank your turns to 200 after rollover,  you should get well over 400 turns in one day.   You can also spend adventures over a 2 day period.  I do not think this is unreasonable at all.

You should be able to make nearly 200k from adventuring in Dreadsylvania every day.  I see some clans PAYING people to adventure in Dreadsylvania at 2000 meat PER adventure.  You could make 800k/day doing that if you wanted to...

If someone has a more fair suggestion that is EASY to implement, I will take it into consideration. 


gangan

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Re: Dread Loot Distribution
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2013, 08:07:30 PM »
I am gonna agree with Dungy here.  I think that in the usual course of things those who are useful get rewarded.  That's been going on as far as I can tell.  It takes time, but we're all used to that.  Raising meat for the clan is a priority too but I have neither the market savvy nor the Dread savvy to spearhead it.  I think that Dungy has been doing a wonderful job so far and we should let him at it as long as he's willing to run it.

Like other dungeons, we would love it if other people would put together occasional coordinated runs.  Announce, recruit, plan, donate, and finish it all in one adventure day, and you can do whatever you want with the loot.  Clan free for alls are going to remain somewhat chaotic by nature.

Mandoline

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Re: Dread Loot Distribution
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2013, 11:35:40 PM »
I still have no new idea to add here, since I just started poking the Dread, and I don't know diddly squat about it's mechanics.
But whatever Dungy is doing, I'm with him - takes a lot of effort to become efficient into squeezing loot from the HM bosses, so "benevolent sniper" sounds reasonable here.
Maybe clone Dungy, or get him a few apprentices to take over when he's not available would be something to think about.

Mad Shelley

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Re: Dread Loot Distribution
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2013, 12:52:17 PM »
This is my contribution to the discussion: -  I am very new to dungeon participation, but I understood that the clan dungeons were implemented to bring a new dynamic to Kol - team-work, collaboration, communication and sharing, much of which is coordinated through chat.  My perception so far is that there could be more collaboration - unlocking things, gallows stuff; I also believe that there could be wider loot distribution.
Hard mode unlocks more drops - but can result in a greater concentration of items for a small number of high level players- which is why I agree with bsander and lostdreams on a policy about what is distributed to the person who kills the HM boss. 
I have no problem with HM items being sold to clan members - and really value the reduced prices on offer from Gumpy and Dungy.  Is there a way to make sure the items are offered to everyone who participated in the run, though, rather than being sold immediately to whoever is in chat at the time.  Some players simply cannot be present when the kill takes place - even though they may have made a significant contribution to the 1,000 kills.
I completely understand Gumpy and Dungy when they raise the issue of the cost of the HM fights - perhaps, though, other players would like to have a go and would like to bear that burden; perhaps in each run there could be group agreement on who kills the bosses.  It's easier to volunteer if there is an open-ended exchange - than if volunteering means challenging established admins as the fight is about to occur.  I don't know about other people but I like to feel my way into something - so for me normal mode kills were important. 
This is the clan rule on Hobopolis -  perhaps we need something similar for Dreadsylvania:
"Everyone wants to fight the bosses. Now we all know that's not possible, and we don't want to have the same "the fastest person" get to fight them. When we get close to a boss fight, players should discuss in hobopolis chat about who will take a shot at it, and who gets 2nd try if the first fails etc. If you have already fought the current boss, leave the turn to somebody else who hasnt."

I am more than happy to try to organize a coordinated run - and perhaps that will be the way that Dreadsylvania has to go if we want to widen access to distribution to more players sooner.  But it does seem to me that we could try to introduce more collaboration to the free-for-alls before trying the "private" route.




LostDreams

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Re: Dread Loot Distribution
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2013, 01:31:51 PM »
On a side note, glad to see so many people responding haha. It's been a while I've seen this much forum participation.

Anyway, like Dungy said, I am not down for a point system. Distro-ing with just the want/have list already takes quite a long time, longer than I think most people expect. And I feel kinda bad so I guess I should man up and distro too haha.

I don't have a great suggestion for a "fair" loot system. It may just fall down to "Stock adventures, burn every two days". Or just suck it up and spend a lot of meat. Clan dungeons after all are just meat sinks.

Mandoline

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Re: Dread Loot Distribution
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2013, 02:07:47 PM »
Common guys!
There used to be 2k of us!
I simply cannot believe there is not even one seasoned programer or software developer in this clan. Statistically speaking, there should be in the tens of them (I'm not good at math, so I might be wrong).
Whatever seems (and IS!) tedious for any of us, it's a joke for a computer!
There's got to be someone willing to write such a script/program/app/whatever. For the bot or for one of the admins.
Tell you what: one Mr. A should lure such a person for the rock they are lurking under!

 

anything